Why Did Longstreet Urge Lee Not to Continue the Battle of Gettysburg
Toward the end of the first days fighting on July 1, 1863, General Longstreet advised General Lee to divert the Confederate forces away from Gettysburg. He suggested moving around the left of the Federal line toward Maryland on ground of their own choosing. This would have forced Meade to attack Lee making it a defensive fight for the Confederates.
What if Lee had listened to Longstreet and taken the fight further south on better ground?
Would Lee have achieved a victory?
Would he have been in position to march on Washington then?
What are your thoughts?
I don't know that it would have changed who won the war, but from what i read i think it would have changed the winner of the battle and possibly the war.
hard to say, but fact remains, Lee should not have fought a that place and time. A position of strength may have turned the tide of that battle and that batle was according to all the historians he turning poin of the whole war. Lee should have listened to Longstreet more in the remainder of the war anyhow.
If Gettysburg had not been fought and instead Lee had won another battle on a different piece of ground it would only have meant that there would have been a different "Confederate high tide" and another turning point sometime later in the War. That War was not one that the Confederacy could have won bravery and chivalry were not enough.
Maybe Meade would have been able to get to the Pipe Creek Line back in Maryland and made Lee attack him there. Could have been a worse outcome than the Confederates received at Gettysburg. Hard to beleive Lee could have positioned himself south of the Union line en masse without Union knowledge, especially since they were strung out on such a large front. They would risk having their units attacked individually, not that Lee was normally opposed to that sort of risk.
With the benefit of hindsight, it could be said Gettysburg was the turning point, but at the time it wasn't. I'm sure the Rebels didn't say, well that's it, it's all downhill from here. The Confederates hadn't been defeated too many times prior to Gettysburg and I'm sure they saw no reason why they couldn't be successful in battle after Gettysburg. Lick your wounds and move on. They fought for nearly 2 more years. With the benefit of hindsight, the Picket -Pettigrew- Trimble Charge probably seems like like a futile and wasteful adventure but I imagine if Lee thought it would turn out like it did he wouldn't have ordered it. Hinsight is a wonderful thing. That battle had many instances, probably many we've never heard of, where the tide could have changed, the outcome being totally different than it was. The same can be said of many battles. What if?
Great responses !!!!
If Lee had been able to position himself between Meade and DC I bet the troops in the trenches around DC would have been released and moved north to possibly trap the Confederates. Remember they had no supply line whatsoever. The Federals had potential for supply from any direction.
Hard for a southern boy to admit, but IMO no Southern army could last long above the Mason-Dixon line unless they achieved massive victories and were able to supply themselves somehow.
I've heard they had designs on heading to Philadelphia before Gettysburg happened. Had they been able to cross the Susquehanna they could have easily marched on Philadelphia without any major obstacles as far as terrain. They could have marched right down the Lincoln Highway. How in the world could they have left there in one piece? They'd have been trapped.
possibilities
what i want to suggest ,, why cant i build a time machine and send back a truckload of aks and ammo for my southern brethren
what i want to suggest ,, why cant i build a time machine and send back a truckload of aks and ammo for my southern brethren
Better than that just send back some portable radios. That would make the difference.
I've heard they had designs on heading to Philadelphia before Gettysburg happened. Had they been able to cross the Susquehanna they could have easily marched on Philadelphia without any major obstacles as far as terrain. They could have marched right down the Lincoln Highway. How in the world could they have left there in one piece? They'd have been trapped.
I have read the first goal for Lee was likely Harrisburg. If successful in taking it I suppose Philadelphia, Baltimore, or DC would have been logical choices. Either way the Confederates supplies would have been limited to what they could gather from the land or capture from the Federals. I agree they would likely have been trapped at either city.
we were sustaining as long as we stayed on southern soil. we should never have changed from defensive to offensive. foreign support would have been greater. home court advantage in Dixie.
A tank or 2 and a couple of attack helicopters would have turned the tide!!
I have been reading a book by a man who commanded one of Nathan B. Forrest's artillery batteries. So, I wonder how it would have ended if NBF had General Lee's command. He deceived, pushed hard and relentlessly, and captured a lot of what he needed from the north. I think it was Sherman who referred to him as "that devil Forrest".
Just for fun . . . there is an alternative history/sci-fi book by Harry Turtledove in which AK's really are sent back by a time machine to the Confederacy! Don't remember the precise title, I think it was "The Guns of the South."
If Forrest had command of Lee's Army the Confederacy would have died long before it did, in my opinion.
Lee wasn't aware initially of just how many federal troops he was facing. Jeb Stuart was roaming the countryside raiding train depots, etc.. and this left Lee with little info other than what skirmishers were reporting. Lee made several mistakes, the major one being not taking the high ground when he had the chance and the Union troops were still out of position.
A march south to avoid the battle that was forming would have left Lee with a strong Union force behind him and probably another Union army marching out of Washington to cut him off. There were enough Feds in Baltimore to move to Washington fairly quickly to defend it.
I don't think the loss of Stonewall Jackson two months before Gettysburg can be ignored. Lee and Jackson were a formidible pair of strategists combined, but without Jackson, I feel Lee was never the same again.
rhbama3 makes some good points. Had Jackson and Stuart been there, and Longstreet not have been pouting and delayed his troup movements, the outcome likely would have been different.
However, IMO, the souths downfall was Grant being given command of the Army of the Potomac. He refused to let Lee dictate the pace and forcing Lee to come out and fight to protect Richmond. Had the north not found an aggressive leader, Lee could have played hit and run for several more years, eventually forcing the north to negotiate peace.
Was all the fiasco and mis-managment related to the Confederate right flank (Hood/McLaws) on July 2nd the result of Longstreet being PO'd at RE Lee?
Was it Longstreet trying to carry out Lees orders to the tee?
Was it just circumstance and Murphys law?
Was it a combination of these ??
Lee was set up to fail at Gettysburg, without his "eyes" Stuart he had no idea of how many Union troops were in front of him. Longstreet's plan to go towards D.C. in theory is smart, but the Susquehanna River would have prevented them from being able to cross in a timely fashion, and even possibly Lee would have been stuck with his back to the river while pontoon bridges were being built. Lee would have to go south and march towards D.C. Lee almost achieved victory at Gettysburg on July 2, but bad positioning of men and a lack of mass concentration of troops attacking Little Round Top it failed. Longstreet proposed to attack the same way on July 3 but shifting the army towards the Union flank at L.R.T. Using Pickett's and his own men, to go to the far left of the Union flank. With a mass concentration of troops, this tactical decision would have the most chance of being successful. Lee for as smart of a commander, was to arrogant and thought he could pull off the impossible and ordered a frontal assault, but didn't have capable commanders, i.e. Jackson.
Gettysburg although crushing to the Confederate moral is not the turning point of the Civil War, losing Vicksburg cost the Confederates the war. This is also Lee's fault....
Bullethead Jr.
There it is. Stuart was AWOL as the military intelligence arm of Lee.
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Source: https://forum.gon.com/threads/what-if-lee-had-listened-to-longstreet-at-gettysburg.634900/
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